Monday, August 30, 2010

I'm Not Unfaithful, But I'll Stray

A few months back, after a particularly emotional night out, my friend Maggie and I had a discussion about cheating. She made a point that I had never really thought of before - she said that cheaters (for the sake of our discussion, men) always cheated down.

What's cheating down? Well, it means that the cheater tends to stray with those who are less attractive or less of a "catch" than the person they already have. They cheat with someone less desirable. Seems silly, right? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

You'd think so. But I thought about it. Remembered all the people I knew who cheated. And it's true. The majority of them cheated on their awesome partners with less-than-awesome people.

There's a lot of reasons for it, I think. Number one is probably that some people can't handle having an attractive, likeable, or even successful partner. It makes them feel like less, in comparison, so they seek someone who will make them feel better about themselves. Kinda like a "hero complex".

Sad, really.

We should all feel lucky when we're with someone great. Instead, a lot of people screw it up and "cheat down" or even "date down" with the next partner. Blind summabitches, y'are.

Along with that, for some damn reason, I keep getting into conversations about monogamy. Less and less folks believe it's possible to stay in a "happy", committed relationship with one person. I disagree, speaking only for myself.

So... you, my intelligent, good-looking and agreeable readers... What do you think about "cheating/dating down"? And do you believe in monogamy?

(Yeah, yeah... bitch got a little serious on ya today. Whoops.)


Anonymous said...

You know that does seem true, I myself have never cheated (hope I can keep that trend up). I have always felt lucky when I'm with someone that I have such a wonderful person in my life. Doesn't mean it stays that way but it sure is nice as long as it does.

I do tend to find myself as the voice of reason of a good many of friends. I will chalk ths one up tothe fact logic has yet to fail me, which I will also give credit to my have-yet-to-cheat self. I'll get into how that works sometime if you ever ask.

Back on topic, I have noticed that in my being there, I'm too damn good of a friend to ever date, that people do cheat down as you call it, and date down. I also think you hit the reasoning dead on. As a male, having grown up in the way society is today, the bombardment from the media, we really often do feel like we aren't good enough, and an amazing partner for many of us, I guess, well frankly scars us. Maybe we keep thinking you will just find someone better and do it to us, so let's beat her to the punch sort of thing.

Kris said...

Anon - That happens so often. I know guys who have dumped girls because they thought "this girl is too good for me, she's just going to find someone better. I have to leave her before she leaves me." At one point in time, many moons ago, I may or may not have been on the shitty end of that stick. His tough luck though, he was right - I was a good chick. But when I'm with someone, they're the only one in my head. :)

I liked your response, if you wanna get further into it, like you said, go ahead

Masuka said...

Well since we're being all serious today:

I tend to agree except in certain cases where the person thinks they're so hot that they can do better and cheat that way.

But people cheat because there's something missing in their life/relationship. And they go to another person to try and find whatever it is they're missing (excitement, affection, sex etc).. I also don't think it's fair to paint everyone with the same brush-not that I condone cheating--I just like to hear all sides of the story first.

I read an interesting study recently where they theorized that humans weren't really meant to be in a one on one relationship and that its just a side effect of religious dogma and centuries of evolution to be 1 on 1.... Actually, didn't I send you that article??

Kris said...

You probably did. I've actually done quite a bit of reading on the subject, which is probably why I always end up in these conversations. I don't believe there's ONE person for each human on the planet, but I do believe people can be in committed relationships - but only if it's the right person.

But yeah, you're right - there are different reasons that people cheat. I was just bringing up a specific one that a friend really made me think about. I know far too many dudes who can't handle being with a real "catch". They like to chase those girls, but have too much ego to stay when they get 'em. Bad game.

Again, I'm not trying to paint everyone with the same brush. I'm just asking opinions on this particular reason, cuz it seems pretty damn common.

Princess Pessimism said...

KRIS!!! your most brilliant post. Really...i cant help but agree and think that this is so accurate - although, i may be biased since the dude I was seeing told me less than 24 hours ago that he let some other chick blow him.

All of the dudes that have cheated., cheated with chicks who SUCK.

But this is such a good way of thinking about it., so we dont feel so defeated. Good for self confidence.

Kris said...

Agreed. And i may be wrong, but I think men "cheat down" more than women do. Women often cheat because they need attention and affection; they want to feel sexy and wanted. At least, it seems that way.

Whoever that dude is, I hope you kicked him in the face.

Sixty-Four Dollar Question said...

Technically, I have cheated once, but I say technically because my boyfriend at the time refused to break up with me and I had made it quite clear that I was moving on from him and the relationship.

Otherwise, I don't understand cheating or those that cheat at all. If you have the impulse to stray, that should be telling you something. Maybe you have an inferiority complex, perhaps you've fallen out of love, whatever it is, you should know that it's time to say goodbye to your partner. Afterall, we're supposed to be adults, right?

The other thing I don't get, and this typically applies to women, is why people stay with cheaters. I have so many girlfriends who have forgiven repeat offenders, thinking they will change or that the sting of being betrayed will eventually hurt less. Drives me nuts.

Kris said...

Exactly - if you want someone else so badly that you need to sneak behind your partner's back? Then you should be single.

I don't know why people stay with cheaters either. I don't think I ever could... people rarely change that much. Slight changes, sure. But cheaters tend to keep doing it, and the person who was hurt will likely never get over the first one enough to trust again. Fun cycle, that must be.

Anonymous said...

i read an article about a study that said that men usually cheat down and women tend to cheat up. the thesis was that men cheat down because they are more interested in sex and cheating down makes them feel big and power, while women cheat up because they're looking for a better partner.

as far as monogamy goes, works for some people, not for others. the real problem is that as a society we hold monogamy is such high regard. it's considered the ultimate goal and that's just plain unrealistic. cheating is much different than choosing to not be monogamous, but i'm sure many people who don't consider a non-monogamous relationship an option for them have betrayed their partners by cheating on them rather than breaking up because being part of a couple is seen as insanely positive.

Son of 'Downer said...

I'm the down you speak of. Like, a woman married to a doctor wanted to have an affair with me. Yes, she couldn't handle her attractive, rich, successful dude, so she wanted a taste of the other side. She didn't get it, but I'm sure it would have made her feel better about herself.

Kris said...

Anon - I think we're on the same page. And you're right, a lot of women DO cheat up to make them feel better. And it's like we said above - people who don't believe in monogamy shouldn't be in monogamous relationships. Or let their partner believe they're in one.

Downer - Sometimes that happens because the "attractive, rich, successful dude" isn't giving her enough attention, and doesn't feel he has to. You're real. She probably just wanted a taste of 'real'.

Jonathan said...

It's not cheating unless you get caught.

If a tree falls in a forest ...

Kris said...

Sure, but don't you usually choose girls that lack the, uh... brain power... to ever catch you?

Maybe you're the smartest of all. :p

Mike D. said...

I've never cheated and I don't think I ever could. If the person I'm dating isn't enough for me then I end things. I do agree that a lot of people cheat down and date down as you said. Some of my best pals had gorgeous, smart and friendly girls and let them go because they were afraid of being dumped for better men. The next girls they dated were less attractive, mean and not easy to be around. I really don't get it. We should be over the moon to have girls like you and girls like my friends had before. I want to date up! More for me! =)

Vinny Chase said...

I like to say I have a hero complex. But not when it comes to dating. I know I am lucky that the smart pretty girl I am with still puts up with me. No way would I cheat down or date down if she so feels that we are no longer good together.

My hero complex comes from when I fly and I want to always sit in the exit row. I say it's to save peoples lives just in case, but I am sure it is actually that I just want the extra leg room.

Either way, you say hero complex at the counter and they tend to give you the exit row.

Kris said...

D - That's the long comment you've ever made! I caught the compliment - thank you. Glad you've never cheated, smart guy.

Vinny - Ha! Different hero complex, I think. But definitely a better one. I like when people say they feel "lucky" to be with someone. You should feel that way, right?

Krista said...

I am a serial monogamist, had a few "dates" with people and decided it wasn't for me, I locked down on what I wanted. My view on cheaters is this: they are greedy, even if they are cheating down. Commitment is something people think is scary but why? I'd say it's a fine line between wanting commitment and wanting to experience many different relationships, it's not fair to anyone if you say you're in it to win it and then end up cheating. What's the point of the commitment? If you can't tread those waters than stay out of the pool.

Kris said...

You got it, girly!

I'm the same as you, really. Serial monogamist. Now that I'm single, I try to date... but I'd rather just be with one person if I found him. It's like a hunt, and I'm not a fan.

You're right... cheaters are greedy.

Anonymous said...

18 comments and nothing about the pictures? Unheard of!

Kris said...

Yeah, well. Probably best not to comment on pictures where my hair is a rain-soaked mess. Me & alcohol were best buds one night a couple weeks ago.

Anonymous said...

I like your hair here. You look kind of badass. But back to the original topic I guess. Does this hit you where it hurts, have you been cheated on?

Kris said...

Not so much, really. At least not that I know of. But usually that kinda stuff comes out, no?

ghost said...

i don't know about the cheating down. i guess we could point to jude law as a sterling example of that.

as for cheaters, well, i can't think of many things lower than that. but then again, i'm bitter so maybe my opinion is biased.

Kris said...

I wouldn't call it biased. Your opinion is just very real. Our pod, she is bitter.

Anonymous said...

There are shades of gray with this topic... sometimes people just want to have sex... and their beloved does not (because of the strains of day to day life).

What do you do?

Phil said...

I think that is true actually. And that is one awesome photo.

Anonymous said...

This reminds me of the idea of the "seven year itch". It has been said that humans get bored or stray after 7 years or so because that is approximately the amount of time it takes a couple to raise a child past the initial infant/toddler phase.

Assuming this is somehow biologically encoded in us, a man or woman who strays after raising a child to 7 years or so is actually being a good parent/partner. They are fulfilling their responsibilities and making sure that child survives past infancy and their earlier years.

That said, cheating sucks bigtime

on another note, check out this link

Anonymous said...

I too don't think there is one person for you out there and it comes down to simple odds. Without boring you with the math, what are the odds that if there is one perfect soul mate for you out there, that you and him/her would live in the same country/city, meet, both be single and start a relationship? Very slim I would say.

I tend to believe that if anything, people have a "type" they are attracted to. There are hundreds if not thousands of people that fit that type, and the chances of you meeting such a person are much easier. I know it sounds a bit dry, but it makes sense.

And as for cheating, I never understood that if you aren't happy with someone why would you cheat, then have to deal with the drama and fallout of being caught? Isn't easier to break it off and find someone you ARE happy with?

Futhermore, I laugh at people who are the "other man" or "other woman" in a cheating situation. Especially when they end up dating the cheater. What stops the cheater from eventually cheating on them?

Kris said...

Holy Anonymous comments, Batman!

Anon 1 - You are absolutely right. In that case, they should end it if they are far from satisfied. Right? Cuz the person who DOES want to will probably feel pretty horrible and unwanted that their love doesn't want to touch them. What an awful feeling that is.

Phil - Thanks!

Anon 2 - I've read that too. Makes sense and all, but I hate the idea of only being machines for baby-making and that's about it. What about companionship?

Anon 3 - See, I'm talking about monogamy here. Not having "one person" out there for everyone. I said I don't believe in that. It's about finding A person who makes you feel happy and loved, and wanting to be in a committed relationship.

As for the "other man/woman" who end up dating the cheater? Idiots, in most cases. (Sorry if any of you are reading this, but...) Honestly. Smarten up.

Anonymous said...

I suppose I'm Anon 1 again... no, there is a difference between loving someone and wanting to wake up with them every day and sharing a life... and then there is sex. Wanting it, needing it... you may not necessarily love the person you are having sex with. That is not unusual. Time can dampen one's libido, and it is not someone's fault... however, what should the other person do? It can affect your self-esteem greatly if your spouse is not super duper interested in touching or pleasuring you and vice-versa.

But leaving your spouse is not an option, as you do not want to. You really just want to experience sex.

Kris said...

K, you realize I was agreeing with you before, right?

But maybe not with this comment. So... we have a couple who loves each other. They want to wake up together every morning and go to sleep together every night.

But one of them has no libido. Does not want to touch their partner, leaves them alone and feeling horrible and unwanted each night.


And you're saying that, because it isn't the person's fault, the one who wants to be touched and wanted has a right to cheat?

I know more about this subject than I care to talk about. But no, cheating shouldn't really be an option unless this couple has an understanding. EVERY relationship requires communication, or it fails. Running around behind your supposed "love"s back is wrong.

Lara said...

I think what it really boils down to is honesty, no? If you are in a loving committed relationship but it goes down the path as described above instead of sneaking around on your partner perhaps communication is what is needed. The person feeling unwanted, unsatisfied, should approach their partner and say "I love you and want to remain in a relationship with you but I NEED physical love" If the partner with the low labido can live with their partner getting what they need outside the relationship in a case where it can't be obtained in the relationship then they can still have a loving relationship. If the partner with a low labido can not live with that then their partner needs to respect that and decide if being with that person is worth sacrificing their sex drive, if not then the relationship won't work for either.

If one partner is lying, sneaking and all around being dishonest it really isn't a loving relationship.

While getting everything you need
from one partner may not be realistic for everybody, having honesty and communication in a relationship is not only realistic but should be demanded by everybody.

Lara said...

And since I'm breaking my commenting virginity here I feel compelled to continue and answer the question posed in your actual blog post.

"What do you think about "cheating/dating down"? And do you believe in monogamy?"

I get what you are saying about "cheating/dating down" or at least I think I do. I am having a hard time with it because I have a knee jerk reaction to the language of it, the implied social hierarchy, what makes one person better or above another? Attractivenss? Successfulness? Kindness? I think people are too complex to be summed up as above or below one another, you really have to look at limited aspects of ones personality to decide they are not as good as someone else. But if I ignore the language and try to just 'get' what you are saying I would have to go with people crave diversity. Sometimes they just want the opposite of what they currently have.

Do I believe in monogamy? Gah! That is a hard one, I would have to say no, but I belive wholeheartedly in honesty. Can I say I believe in monogamy of the mind but not in sexual mongamy? I see the allure in the forbidden, I see where it is a turn on for people and has been for me in the past. One of the most exciting things in life, at least in my humble opinion, is the new crush, the electrical charge, the ego boost, the first kiss. It's exciting and fun. I have been with my partner for 10 years, we are not always faithful, but we are honest. It's not an "open" relationship per se, I would not be comfortable with him dating other women, forming a relationship or obviouslly falling in love, but I am not about to throw it all away because his hormones get the best of him and he caves to the excitiment on occasion. I suppose it's because I understand it, I love him deeply but am still attracted to other men. I want to add to his life, to his experience, not limit him or control him in any way. But that's what works for us, we are honest, if something happens we come clean, we talk about it, we communicate. I have no respect for somebody who tells their partner "I am committed to you, do not cheat on me, I will not cheat on you" and then does. I find this to be dispicable behaviour. When you lie to somebody about your actions are you not essentially telling them "I don't value you enough to let you make your own decisions"? Telling somebody something is one way when it's actually another is just a way to control them.

I guess bottom line of both my posts is honesty, why is it so hard for people to be honest about who they are and what they want or need?

Anyways, Great Blog!

Anonymous said...

"You can't handle the truth".

Who in their right mind wants to hear someone say to them "You satisfy me on every level, but not on an intimate one?"

We are animals. Were we meant to be monogamous? Is it better to leave a path of emotional destruction or a path of lies? Or is it the same thing?

Show me a man who dreamed about marriage when he was a little tike. Do men get married out of love or the promise of sex? And then the promise gets decayed due to the grind of life, kids and body chemistry changes.

I do believe that self-restraint makes us different than animals, but at the same time, life is short. Try some different ice cream flavors.

Anonymous said...

By the way, Lara... I have admiration for your philosophy. It is the harder road to take.

Kris said...

Jesus... where to start....

Lara - Your first comment - I agree 100%.

Your second comment... when I say dating down, I realize people take it the wrong way. I sometimes forget that I'm not just speaking to a group of friends here who know me. No, I don't think any one person is better than the other. Perhaps you haven't experienced or seen what "dating down" is. In that case, it's hard to explain. But it's real.

As for the rest, you're right. It's all about honesty. Not everyone is capable of the kind of relationship you have. I don't think I could, because I've been in situations where I was made to feel like less than others. But I completely understand the way you do things, and I applaud you for it. It's hard to be happy, and it looks like you found the right way for you. :)

Anon - That's all completely your own opinion. Some men DO dream of marriage. Just like a lot of women don't. And there are other ways to word things when you lack a sexual attraction to your partner.

You try all the "flavours" you want. Doesn't mean everyone is the same as you. The entire point here is that is people are going to be in relationships, they have to be honest and REAL. Sneaking around is so fucking cowardly, no matter how badly you want to hump everything that passes you. Do feelings not matter? I think they do.

Anonymous said...

I think single people idealize "the perfect relationship" like generals back at headquarters and us spoken for soliders are down in the trenches getting shot at constantly!

Kris said...

Hey, I've only been single since January. I relate to being in a relationship better than I relate to NOT being in one. There's no "perfect" anything, it's just about trying to be happy without hurting anyone else - hence, honesty and communication. Right?

Anonymous said...

Hey, I greatly believe in seeking truth and beauty.

Thus I am here with you locked in lovely conversation. Awww.

Kris said...

Excellent, wanna get married? I'm super nice 'n junk. ;)

Anonymous said...

Too late... I'm very married and polygamy is way too intense for moi.

But here I am on your blog since I think you are one of the sexist women I've ever seen and I want to have toe-curdling, sheet-removing, dripping sex with you.

Happy Wednesday.

Kris said...

And that, ladies and gents, is how you finally get Kris to shut up.


Happy Wednesday indeed!

Jetson Stamina said...

Cheaters mostly cheat sideways.

They like what they have... but also like to have what they don't have with their partner. So they seek what's missing.

Often, it's not about looks, so it's easy to cheat with a fugly 6 with no self esteem when you are a handsome 8. If we're talking esthetics, it's Cheating Down.

But, if the Fugly 6 lets you fart in front of her and she performs the "Turkish Bottle Neck Squirrel" without objection... well then, in a cheaters eyes, he's cheating UP.

It's all about perspective.

Here's something I firmly believe.

For a Cheater... Cheating is less of an act and more of a value system.

Kris said...

Value system? Tell me more.

Jetson Stamina said...

Allthough a cheater would never admit it. Cheating is part of a moral and ethical philosophy for the cheater.

So the thought becomes...

"I want this and I also want THAT. It would be WRONG for me to not have both if the opportunity presents itself. It would be wrong if I don't take advantage of this offering of the poontang."


If you could cheat as often as you'd like and never get caught, would you?

A cheater would say "Hell Yeah!" Because above all else, it would be wrong not to benefit.

A NON-Cheater would still say "Can't do it" Because above all else they value monogamy and what that commitment truly means.

To a cheater, a relationship is only fullfilling to the extent that it offers consistency. Which is not to say they don't love their partner... they just don't believe that what is shared between them should get in the way of what's available to them when they're not together.

Cheaters DO feel bad for how it affects their partners when they get caught... It just happens to be less important than the gratification that comes with cheating.

Cheating isn't something that just happens. It's an important part of a Cheater's values.

Then again... what do I know.

Kris said...

I'd say you know a lot. Good comment!

Anonymous said...

Wow, first one to comment, away for a few days not thinking about it and a whole lot of comments. I will apologize for not reading them all I think I may suffer from a slight ADD.

One thing people bring up is people not being meant to be monomagous, and yes the reason we are is not from instinct but from learning. A great example you will find is a guy might seem like the good friend, good husband, good father type if he was raised by a single mother, but he may not seem overly attractive, but I can bet you this guy will always provide you the attention and affection you crave. Where you may notice that guys who have had both parents or in rare cases a single father, may be far more attractive, likely due to an edgier, more random behviour, but it is very likely those guys are the most likely to cheat.

I think humans are like most every other animal on the planet, however we have the ability to make concious decisions.

I agree that it really takes the right person to stick together. The one thing that drves me batty, is situations where "we can't date we are best friends" Hello that probably tells you something rght there, you want a relationship that will endure... well that's probably the person to be with. I mean really are you going to meet someone, date a bit, and then get married if that person hasn't become your best friend in the process? I dunno about you all but really if i'm going to spend my life wit someone, have a family with her, than you are damn right I want her to also be my friend.

On a side note, as long as I've known you Kris, you are an incredible woman, and I don't think anyone would be able to "cheat up" on you anyway!

Jonathan said...

There was an Eleventh Commandment that was never written, yet, must always be observed : Thou shalt not get caught.

Cheating seems to be a relevant term ONLY when one is caught in the act. Until then, it doesn't exist.

Kris said...

Anon (You need a nickname so I can tell ya apart!) - Thanks for the compliment, I'm assuming we must know each other? If so... good!

I'm with ya on the friend thing, for the most part. I HAVE told guys I couldn't date them because they were good friends. There's a reason behind it - if we're great friends and I love them dearly, then we date and it doesn't work out? I lose a friend. A great friend. I don't want that.

That said... as far as boyfriends, partners, husbands... I want a guy who is my best friend. Definitely. It's a must-have. And that's the hardest thing to find, a best friend who you are attracted to, have chemistry with, and passionate for.

Jonny - You and I should blog a debate one day. We fight anyways, why not document it? ;)

in need of a nickname... said...

Way I see it, is if you date a friend, and the romantic relationship doesn't work, and you can't remain friends afterwords they probably weren't really that great of a friend to begin with. 2 Best friends generally share everything, everything except thier bodies. Hell sometimes they even share relationship partners... but that is a whole other issue altogether.

So far to this day I have, drifted apart from ex girlfriends, but most have remained great friends sense the break up so it didn't work (and for the record I am not "friends with benefits" with any of them.

I actually tend to stay abstenant (if I even spelled that right, lol)when I am not in a relationship. I just think I would rather give the girl that wins my affection something not every other girl around has had. Call me old fashion or a sap whatever, but it's true. I fully think there is far more to any relationship than just sex, in fact aside from that aspect being fun, who would disagree there, it is really one of the least important parts, enjoy each others company, be there for each other, and everything will fall into place. Even bad sex when it is love sex is still some of the best sex you can ever have. So why do people cheat? My guess is instinct, the more you do it the more chance there is to reproduce, and even with birth control methods, the instinctual part of us still just wants to have babies lol!

We'll work on a nickname for me later. Or I'll let you pick one.
...and yes we know each other, but I like being mysterious!

sorry for double post. said...

The name says it all, my bad!

Kris said...

Don't worry, I deleted one.

nickname needed (its shorter this way) said...

Keeping things neat. Another one of your admireable qualities!

Was kinda hoping you would have added into the conversation.

One thing I can really say I fancy, is a woman with some intelligence, which so far in the day to day life, I have not met many. I can say the same for guys as well, thankfully, I don't find men attractive... I really don't even know how women can find us attractive haha.

Kris said...

I was going to add to the conversation, but I'm too busy making guesses in my head about who you are. :)

nickname needed. said...

So I have also captivated your imagination, I am okay with that.

However it is causing us to get off topic don'tcha think?

I'm still going to let you keep guessing though it is far more entertaining, probably for both of us, but since I cannot speak for you, I will say I am amused.


On a side note, since this is an old blog post, I guess it is okay to get off topic. (as much as I enjoy this topic, being a fan of psychology, especially when it comes to relationships, one area I can't seem to help myself, but I seem to do well helping other people!)

Don't worry you will eventually find out who I am. For now let your imagination have fun with it :)

Kris said...

Hey, Nickname Needer - people have been asking me who you are, so you should probably just tell me. You can email or FB me, if that's better. I'll be yer best friend.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I am checking this blog using the phone and this appears to be kind of odd. Thought you'd wish to know. This is a great write-up nevertheless, did not mess that up.

- David

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People cheat down because uglier people are easier. You don't want a relationship from this person, just some quick and easy. Good looking people are harder too hook up. Self-confidence you know?

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